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Saturday, 13 May 2017

Coo-coo for Coccopalmerio

Cardinal Coccopalmerio is in the news again; dismissing Pope Leo's apparently problematic Magisterial document and giving his opinion on the "validity" of Anglican Orders.

Image result for coccopalmerio
Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio after being named a Cardinal

“When someone is ordained in the Anglican Church and becomes a parish priest in a community, we cannot say that nothing has happened, that everything is ‘invalid.” Coco






Whom do you believe?

36. Wherefore, strictly adhering, in this matter, to the decrees of the Pontiffs, Our Predecessors, and confirming them most fully, and, as it were, renewing them by Our authority, of Our own initiative and certain knowledge, We pronounce and declare that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void. Leo XIII, Papal Bull Apostolicae Curae, 1896




17 comments:

Ana Milan said...

Another VII dolt inflicted upon us by JPII (Bishop) & PB (Cardinal). Rather throws mud in the faces of the Ordinariates who, at great personal cost & much soul-searching, came fully into the CC rather than stick where they were. These old men are in so much of a hurry to re-write the script of 2,000 years - there was no way of recording the Words of Jesus so why not. Are there no good Cardinals to speak?

Mario Josipovic said...

To be fair, Apostolicae Curae was a prudential judgment on what had, in fact, happened to the Church in England from 1559 to the restoration of a more Catholic understanding of ordination in 1662. Since there had been no living connection between the last of the duly consecrated Marian bishops and those ordained under the 1662 Ordinal, apostolic succession had been broken.

More recently, in light of the attempts of the Church of England to re-establish apostolic succession under the (admittedly schismatic) "Dutch Touch", by the 1930s or 40s that would have raised enough doubt that any given Church of England Priest did not, in fact, have a valid ordination (it being blasphemous to attempt the sacrament or ordination twice). Hence the instances of "conditional ordination" of formerly Anglican priests. However, in more recent times, the intention of that ecclesial community in ordaining women as bishops indicates the proper intention is now completely lacking.

Of course, if anyone understands this good Cardinal's commentary as meaning that being a Protestant pastor in care of souls is sufficient in-and-of-itself to guarantee priestly ordination, then that is misleading.

Murray said...

Yes, the only room for nuance here is to say that while Anglican orders are in and of themselves utterly invalid, some Anglican priests may have been validly (if illicitly) ordained by renegade Catholic bishops. I believe Fr Hunwicke mentioned an Anglican priest who was conditionally ordained for this reason when he converted. But this is really a separate issue, not related to Cardinal Coccopalmieri's claims.

Peter Lamb said...

Nothing from these novus ordo heretics surprises anymore.

JayJay said...

B- b- b- but, he looks soooo piiiiious. Isn't that a selling point?

TC said...

What does this mean for the Anglican women priests & bishops...

Vox Cantoris said...

KARL,

YOUR COMMENT IS POSTED AND EDITED.

I UNDERSTAND YOU DON'T WISH TO SHOW NAY RESPECT TO THESE HERETICS BUT PLEASE SHOW IT TO ME AND MY REAERS BY REFRAINING FROM PROFANTIY.

MY FRIEND, YOU NEED TO GET BEYOND THIS AND FIND PEACE IN THE SACRAMENTS GIVEN TO YOU BY OUR BLESSED LORD. THIS HATRED AND ANGER IS GOING TO DESTROY YOU. OFFER IT UP, BEAR YOUR CROSS AND PLEAD TO THE LORD FOR PEACE.

VOX.

Then why, you BLANK, BLANK, heretic, BLANK of a human being, COCO PUFFS, can marriages before protestant clergy be considered, ab initio, de-fucto invalid, for LACK OF FORM and the participants given carte blanche to marry their new adulterous partners in a catholic ceremony, in front of their scandalized children and faithful catholic friends? BLANK you catholic marriage, rapist, murderers and PLEASE FORMALLY EXCOMMUNICATE ME FOR FAITHFULLNESS AND MY TELLING THE WORLD WHAT TRASH THE CATHOLIC HIERARCHY ARE!! Please, act to excommunicate me JORGE YOU PIG! YOU KNOW FULL WELL WHO I AM!! Karl

Vox Cantoris said...

We have a "high" Anglican church in Toronto, St. Thomas' Huron Street, a.k.a. Smokey Tom's.

I have heard that some priests there stole the priesthood through the "Dutch touch."

This CooCoo speaks of the general state of their Orders.

He is delusional.

Anonymous said...

Cocco is cuckoo!

Mar

Anonymous said...

Take care, Vox.

Karl

Dan said...

I guess you rigid Catholics didn't get the memo that "eternal" truths are subject to change through the process of discernment. That's being "enlightened" just like our ordained betters.

John Laws said...

Like the German church, the Anglo church lures by Mammon. Coren succumbed to this lure, as have many others:

http://jonahintheheartofnineveh.blogspot.ca/2017/05/the-spiders-web-britains-second-empire.html

Peter Lamb said...

Below are excerpts of five Magisterial documents from the papacy of Pope Ven. Pius XII which strongly, clearly, and solemnly condemn the heresy of situation ethics. Compare the drivel of bergoglio and his scurvy minions regarding situational ethics and the writings of a true Pope:
1) Vegliare con sollecitudine, Address to the Italian Association of Catholic Midwives, October 29, 1951
[...] It will be objected, however, that such abstinence is impossible, that heroism such as this is not feasible. At the present time you can hear and read of this objection everywhere, even from those who, because of their duty and authority, should be of quite a different mind. [...] we have the doctrine of the Council of Trent which, in the chapter on the necessary and possible observance of the Commandments, referring to a passage in the works of Augustine, teaches: 'God does not command what is impossible, but when He commands, He commands, He warns you to do what you can and to ask His aid for what is beyond your powers, and He gives His help to make that possible for you'. [...]
2) La famiglia, Radio Message on the Occasion of ‘Family Day’, March 23, 1952
[...] The ‘new morality’ affirms that the Church, instead of fostering the law of human liberty and of love, and of demanding of you that dynamics which is worthy of the moral life, instead bases itself almost exclusively and with excessive rigidity, on the firmness and the intransigence of Christian moral laws, frequently resorting to the terms ‘you are obliged’, ‘it is not licit’, which has too much of an air of a degrading pedantry. [...] Taking, therefore, the words of Christ and of the Apostle as the strict rule, should not one say that the Church of today is rather inclined more to coddling than to severity? It so happens that the accusation of oppressive rigidity made against the Church by the ‘new morality,’ in reality, attacks, in the first place, the adorable Person of Christ Himself."[...]
3) Soyez les bienvenues, Discourse to the Participants in the Congress of the World Federation of Catholic Young Women,

Peter Lamb said...

April 18, 1952
The distinctive mark of this morality is that it is not based in effect on universal moral laws, such as, for example, the Ten Commandments, but on the real and concrete conditions or circumstances in which men must act, and according to which the conscience of the individual must judge and choose. Such a state of things is unique, and is applicable only once for every human action. That is why the decision of conscience, as the advocates of this ethic assert, cannot be commanded by ideas, principles and universal laws. [...] adultery and fornication, the abuse of marriage, the solitary sin, stealing and robbery, taking away the necessities of life, depriving workers of their just wage [...]—all this is gravely forbidden by the divine Lawmaker. No examination is necessary. No matter what the situation of the individual may be, there is no other course open to him but to obey. [...] this new ethic, perhaps without being aware of it, acts according to the principle that the end justifies the means. [...] did they [the martyrs], in the face of the “situation” in which they found themselves, uselessly or even mistakenly incur a bloody death? No, certainly not, and in their blood they are the most explicit witnesses to the truth against the “new morality.”
4) Nous vous souhaitons, Discourse to the Participants of the International Congress on Psychotherapy and Clinical Psychology, April 13, 1953
[...] it would be erroneous to establish for real life norms which would deviate from natural and Christian morality, and which, for want of a better word, could be called "personalist" ethics. The latter would without doubt receive a certain "orientation" from the former, but this would not admit of any strict obligation. The law of the structure of man in the concrete is not to be invented but applied.
5) Contra doctrinam, Instruction on ‘Situation Ethics’, Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, February 2, 1956
[...] Having considered these things, in order to avert the danger of the “New Morality,” of which the Supreme Pontiff Pope Pius XII spoke in the Allocutions held on the days of March 23 and April 18, 1952, and in order to safeguard the purity and intactness of Catholic doctrine, this Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office interdicts and prohibits this doctrine of "Situation Ethics” from being taught or approved, under any name whatsoever it may be designated, whether in Universities, Athenaeums, Seminaries or houses of religious formation, or in books, dissertations, lectures, whether, as they say, at conferences, or by any other means of being propagated or defended.
- See more at: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/05/pius-xiis-condemnation-of-situation.html#sthash.ea0Rxun0.dpuf

Anonymous said...

https://www.tfpstudentaction.org/petitions/urge-catholic-school-not-to-sack-teacher-for-quoting-saint-john-bosco-on-islam

Eirene said...

The picture shows a suitably "humble" new Cardinal!

Kathleen1031 said...

No matter how intensely we feel about things, we must respect the person who takes the time and energy to moderate a Catholic blog. It is a responsibility and a time and energy drainer. We must all recognize that sometimes things can get to us and we get overheated. It happens, but we collect ourselves and rein ourselves in. Kudos to all who love Our Lord so much they get agitated and kudos to the people who moderate great blogs like this one.